Growing Up on 23 Lawndale
Part I
[Editor’s Note: About five years ago, I got together with my siblings, Marianne O’Malley, Jim McGuire, and Ed McGuire, about growing up on 23 Lawndale Street, Belmont, MA. We met for two rainy days in April. It was a lot of fun to reminisce. My sister, Marianne, made one of her famous apple pies. We went to a great and huge gourmet grocery store in Northern Virginia. We stocked up on cheese, wine, and assorted goodies. We stayed at my brother Ed’s house in Clifton, Virginia, and talked and ate for about two days. It was marvelous! My brother, Jim, as usual, had the great foresight to bring a tape recorder. These are the transcripts of those days. Matt McGuire, October 2010.]
[Transcriptionist’s Note: Speakers are not identified on CD. As I listened to it, it seemed to me that the only female present was Marianne. I have so indicated MA as that speaker.]
… a little bit more humane.
Yeah.
BC High was marines and storm troopers and, you know, when I think of different things in life that sort of prepared you for getting knocked about ...
MA:[inaudible]
... well, Uncle Matt – we talked about this before, the definition game for any discussion …
His name is Matt, where does that come from?
Well, yeah, what’s the origin of that?
MA:Yeah.
You know, the sky is blue today, well, the sky’s – define what you mean by “the” …
Well, don’t we wanta talk about the sky and the blue, no, I wanta talk about “the.” Define it. And, uh, spell it for me, etc., and then so, Matt would do that and you had Matt doing that, um, but I, I think the Jesuits in high school were like the marines. You had the best explanation of what the Jesuits were like and I thought it was perfect, they said – they, uh, treat you like men and punish you like boys.
Yeah.
And, I thought that was perfect because they did treat you like men, they expected a lot of you to punish you like boys and they were – intellectually, they were always, always, always, uh, challenging your mind and they like the little give and take and your Father Begley was, was brilliant at that and there were some, some great, great teachers, but they really forced the mind thinking so I think that part was really important education, educationally for us and I think probably smaller grades getting ready for them was mom, uh, just working for them – at least helping for me and, and wanta get through some of the grades just drilling and going over things, so your memory and your mind, your ability to absorb stuff was, uh – set you up for that. And, then for later in life, when you go through that you’ve had just about every kind of little challenge you can and life is a little easier.
I think, uh, Dad was also good in blocking and tackling, you had to get your fundamentals right.
Right.
And, uh, it’s only later in life that, you know – you don’t get your fundamentals right, everything goes …
I had …
… everything goes off the track, you don’t do that right.
[Edward C. McGuire talking] I had a discussion about you and Dad, uh, with, uh, a friend, uh, maybe about a week before you came here, cause we were talking – Candy’s always said you liked to take French.
Yeah.
Because there are so many words that come from French …
And, Latin.
… and, and, and, I, I’ve always thought Greek and Latin were perfect, in fact, these two little boys’ names that we took to the circus – I was talking about hippopotamus, you know, voices and “hippo,” “potomus,” and all of that and I told them what hippopotamus meant from river horse from the Greek and I said that Greek and Latin, uh, have all these word roots that you use and Dad was classically trained ...
MA:Yeah.
... and I can – I’ll never forget this, it was in the front room, cause when you study with Dad – and Dad was, was really brilliant, but his patience for, for teaching was usually stretched out at the end of the day. And, you’re in the front room and, and you’re having this discussion, you – and you didn’t like Latin …
Yeah.
… or Greek and you’re going, this is the stupidest thing, it’s not worth while …
MA:Oh, I never ...
… this is crazy, this is – I’ll never need this in my life, why do I have to waste my time with Latin and Greek and I’m trying to whistle to Matt – I call him into the other room, I said, look, Matt, he’s off on this. Dad’s Masters degree was in the classics, Latin and Greek. You don’t want to tell Dad it’s a waste of time.
[Me talking] Ed was like – what’d you taught me life there – talk about the three – what you taught me about life – it’s like [inaudible] landscape – cause you were always going – [laughter].
MA:You don’t wanta go there.
You don’t want to do this [inaudible].
You know, and I find myself with people at work, you know, they get all, you know – I said, you know, you really have a good point and I want to support you in doing this, but, you know, you kinda, you know, crossed a little bit over the top, so just keep on doing what you’re doing. Just, dial it back a couple notches. You know, just dial it down. I was, I was in a mediation with a guy who was really upset and I said, uh, you know, uh, you know, you know – and I understand what you’re doing, I understand it’s very serious, I says, but, uh, you know, you know, like Moses coming down from the mountain, just, just stand five feet before the top of the mountain, just come down a few feet for me, will you? Because, you know, you know, you’re being a little bit self-righteous here.
I hope he did get it.
And, he did. Started smiling.
Essentially, I remember Dad with, uh, actually, the, uh, activities in Latin and throwing the book across the table and …
MA:Well …
… and you said – I said, uh – I didn’t want him to teach me Latin. And, I, and, I think the reason was because he was so smart that I just, you know, I couldn’t catch up.
MA:Well, you, you guys, I mean, we were kidding last night, well, I was just telling – actually telling you, well, the boys were saying things like, is it an “A” or under, you know, you can, you can use that card, but when – I don’t know what happened to me somewhere along the line, but I was not getting math concepts for some reason and [laughter] …
… oh, hold it. [laughter] The whole world is shaking, wait a minute, is there an eclipse out there? Holy Moly!
MA:What?
How’d you like geometry?
MA:Oh, I hated it. You know, well …
You know …
MA:… [inaudible] they, mom and dad, on the kitchen wall wrote the times tables, all …
Right.
MA:… all on there. And, I mean, I never could get that, I, I don’t know whether at that point I thought, you know, I’m so stupid, I’m not gonna be able to get this, but I have never felt comfortable with math.
Right. I know – I think ...
But, but, you got all A’s.
Okay. No.
MA:But, I meant – I mean – I did, I did, I mean, I …
You did?
Yeah, she did, she got all …
Ma:Well, I did ...
Yeah, you did great in high school [several talking at once] – you did great in college, you did really well – I heard about all of you all the time ahead of me. A’s, A’s, A’s – what about your brother and sister? A’s – that’s what they got. What are you gonna get, huh? I says, I’m gonna get an A.
MA:Well, I was on the honor roll and that sort of thing.
Right.
MA:You know, I, I did what I needed – whatever it was I needed to do, but I have never, ever felt comfortable.
Right. And, I think there are talents you have – I think Jimmy was – you were a good mathematician.
Yeah.
You looked …
I was, I was sort of …
Actually, as a – I could – my decimal points were not really, really good.
Neither were mine, but the practical math, like even college, is it really …
MA:Have to see it in writing.
… is it really difficult? But, anything that was, uh, you know, like tangents, co-tangents, etc. …
Yeah.
…didn’t mean anything to me. Well, what’s the purpose? It was like, you’re like, I mean, what – it’s not functional, I don’t need it.
MA:Geometry.
I was never going to be like a – did you have – were you a mathematician or science?
You didn’t have the teacher I had, did you?
No, I had the geometry teacher in high school, which was bad news for the kids – who never taught before and didn’t know how to teach and didn’t know anything and I had – it was like blah, blah – blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I had one that was like that, too – geometry – I think it – the thing I remember about Dad is could add numbers in his head and I think that applied to – I mean he would go down a column of numbers – just [add, add, add].
MA:Well, you know, he was funny, I’m, I’m seeing it with Jimmy now, he would – you know, if you had to add like, um, nine and eight, he would make the nine a ten and he’d take one away, I mean – and Jimmy does that. You know, he can add things very quickly in his head and I remember Dad had that, that, um …
[inaudible]
Yeah.
I think Dad and Uncle Matt, both of them, were more renaissance people and that they – and they would try – and Uncle Matt would try any subject. He’d take patent law cases.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, and one thing, he could figure it out. It was a renaissance area and they were – talked about education – I think when you were talking about – we talked a little bit the other day about Mom wanting – seeing education as the avenue for us to achieve success. I, I think, uh, education was tremendously important for Mom and Dad and that’s why we went to the schools and went to the high schools and the college that we did, but on – so, that was really important. I never thought educationally that they had a direction for us to go in and that you had to do a certain thing, so that would take it, in some ways, out of a drive to be a certain thing, to have a certain profession, to have something, that education was a way to, to learn and to expose yourself to, to more things and, so like maybe …
Did you ever think about becoming a businessman?
Did I ever think …
Yeah.
No.
MA:You were going to go into professions. You were gonna be …
You were going to be a doctor, lawyer or priest, I mean there were choices, but …
Yeah.
Oh, no, no, not true, no, not true.
[Ed McGuire talking] I’ll tell you what I was thinking about doing when I was in college – I was thinking about going up to McGill or something – in philosophy or something else. I wasn’t going to be a doctor or lawyer …
MA:But, you were going to be a professional person.
You, you …
MA:You were not gonna be a tradesperson.
You, you were thinking of, uh, theology.
There’s chocolate ice cream and that’s it.
Yeah, that’s it.
MA:Chocolate ice cream?
There’s no, uh, chocolate.
MA:Chocolate ice cream?
That’s one of my favorite stories.
Yeah. Which – I told that to somebody else recently, too.
MA:Hey, should we …
I used to use that in the grand jury all the time, I’d tell …
MA:Shall we go get …
… I have to ask please, will you excuse the language cause I didn’t want to offend people, but when you’re breaking them in and you’re telling ‘em different stories and you’re trying to just give them information, but relax and have them feel like, you know, we’re all people in there, I would tell jokes and that was, that was one of them and I – but I always had to say because, uh, some people – well, a lot of people are very religious and you don’t want to be offensive with choice of language ...
Right.
... so anyway, I’d ask the – hope you’re not going to be offended – and can we – they would double, double up, that was one of my favorite jokes of all time.
MA:What is it?
No, chocolate ice cream.
MA:Oh.
And, and for me, it – my older brother with no chocolate ice cream cause he would always ask. You know, somebody would tell him – he asked the impossible questions the same way, like different, you know, a different adverb or something with it – the same thing over again and people would be shaking their heads. What? What? So …
Have you heard the joke?
MA:No.
You never heard the joke – the chocolate ice cream?
MA:Is that the one …
No, this is ...
MA:Is it chocolate ...
No, that the name for the head was the ice cream – you clap your hands three times and then you get ice cream. The kids not coordinated and he gets the ice cream and he goes whoosh.
MA:Yeah, right, right, right.
Okay, how about Ed tell the joke.
[Ed McGuire talking] Okay. Jimmy – it wouldn’t be anybody but Jimmy – goes into Baskin-Robbins and this long – they got 35 flavors of ice cream, but for one reason or another, uh, Jimmy just wants to get one of the basic normal flavors, which is chocolate ice cream, so Jimmy goes in and the guy behind the counter is there and he says, can I help you sir? And, Jimmy says, sure, all I want – I’ll have a half gallon of chocolate ice cream. And, the guys says, good Lord, I’m so sorry, Jim – I’m so sorry, sir, we, we have 32 flavors and, you know, chocolate’s – actually, it’s not our most popular flavor, but we’re out of chocolate ice and we don’t [have chocolate] ice cream, so I’m sorry, I can’t – I can give you rocky road, I can give you something else, but – chocolate – but – like chocolate, but I can’t give you chocolate ice cream. All I wants the – well, okay, then, uh, I’ll tell you what, why don’t you just give me a quart of chocolate ice cream and the guy says, no, sir, what I’m trying to tell you – and, and, I’m not trying to be offensive or rude or anything, but, unfortunately, we just don’t have any chocolate ice cream, so I can’t give you chocolate ice cream, but if there’s anything else up here, I’ll try and accommodate, mix flavors, whatever, you know, so you get what – something that you like, but we’ve got so many, but no chocolate ice cream, okay. He says, oh, oh, fine, well, then, uh, you know, what, uh, I’ll take a cone of – double scoop of chocolate ice cream. And, the guy says, hmm, okay, we’ve got a little bit of a problem – sir, can you look up at our ice cream board and if you look all the way over to the end, you know, all the flavors, uh, there’s one on the end that’s, uh, uh, vanilla, you see that, okay? Now, if you take the i-l-l-a out of vanilla, what have you got? He says, well, you’ve got van. That’s very good, sir, now if you just move back a little bit on the, uh, ice cream board, if you look up where it says, uh, you know, s-t-r-a-w-b-e-r-r-y, if you take the b-e-r-r-y out of that, what have you got? He says, well, you, you got straw. Very good, now, if you look all the way over to the other side, if you look up where there’s a c-h-o-c-o-l-a-t-e. If you take the f-u-c-k out of that, what have you got? Jimmy said, there’s no “fuck” in chocolate. The guy says, right.
[laughter]
You haven’t heard that story?
MA:Now, I think I – now, that I have heard it, I,I remember it, but I mean, it’s, uh …
And, that would – that is really –
MA:And, I remember …
That’s James.
We always had people in the house. We always had discussions. When we sat down for dinner every night, there was a discussion and it was more about what happened in our day.
MA:Yeah.
We all would talk about that and that was really, really unusual. And, you know, I think, we’re talking about Dad and teaching and, you know, and there’s the patience and that, uh, when I think back, like early on about stuff ...
MA:Um, huh.
... and this was really helpful for – to me for – with Julie and Erin – cause when we were small children, Dad was always playing with us, he always had the twinkle in his eye. When we went to bed, as, as – when we were small children – dad always came in – for us – sometimes he would sing “Too Ra Loo Ra Loo Ra” or just a lullaby to go to bed. He had a special one for you. Each one of us, he made up a song …
MA:Right.
… yours I remember [laughter] Mine was – mine was …
MA:Jimmy’s was “just like his daddy on the 17th of March. Were you there, tell me did you notice, there were [all singing]
That’s perfect.
MA:Mine was Mary Ann’s her daddy’s sweetheart and he loves her.
Yeah, and mine was …
Okay, what’s the rest of it?
MA:[singing] Marianne’s her daddy’s sweetheart and he loves her more each day. Marianne’s her daddy’s sweetheart – that’s all I remember.
Actually, you have a nice voice.
I know, I – I don’t remember the contents.
MA:What was yours? I don’t remember yours.
Well, uh, I can sing on-key. You can’t.
[laughter]
Mine was Eddie Poofin Slinger, which probably’s pretty good.
Eddie Poofin Slinger?
Eddie Poofin Slinger.
How does it go?
I don’t know, it was just Eddie Poofin Slinger, so probably something with a little bit of B.S. mixed in with the other stuff, because you were smart-ass and I was a B.S guy.
MA:Oh.
Uh, but, uh, yeah, that was Eddie Poofin Slinger.
MA:I don’t – guess Matt didn’t get one.
Well, he probably did, but maybe …
Actually, what I remember is …
He was so much younger that we probably didn’t remember that, that as well. Cause Dad would come in and sing to all of us before we went to bed.
MA:Yeah.
The other, the other thing that …
He would read stories.
Yeah, he read stories.
MA:Jerry [inaudible].
He’d always read us stories and what I remember is …
MA:And, he loved music.
… and he loved music and, and dancing and I think that’s all of, all of us love music.
Right.
And, I think that’s really – you know, for a guy – cause Dad was such a great dancer, so was Mom, but Dad loved the music and the dancing, that you could do, you know, you could be a guy that loved music and the dancing and all that kind of stuff and, of course, we …
MA:Too bad he didn’t keep playing his clarinet.
Yeah, that would’ve been nice.
You know.
He had a band in college. Had a band.
MA:Did he?
He had a band?
Yeah, he had a band.
Tell me about it.
He had a, he had a, uh – he was a clarinet player and he had a band in college. They used to play – in the year book, they’ve got a picture of him playing his clarinet.
MA:Oh.
And, one of the things that – he was really good with that. He was a, a great singer. He sang in the choir every once in a while. Every once in a while, he’d get to do the solo. I think what will always be a particularly meaning song maybe for all of us, “Panis Angelicus,” which is …
MA:Yeah.
… which was his favorite. And, uh, uh, you know, the …
MA:Well, I remember, I mean, you guys remember him for different things, but I think the thing I remember is, I always thought of him as kind of an elegant man, kind of dapper.
Well, he was.
MA:And, and, always handsome and that he was, you know, active in the parish and people looked up to him and him bringing home the doughnuts left over from the Holy Name [a men’s prayer association in the Roman Catholic church] things, so we always had kids over, usually, too, our friends could come over and have doughnuts after, uh, church.
Actually, I think they let – people were in the house all the time.
They were.
MA:Yes.
I mean, they always liked Mrs. – Mom’s – and Mom liked to listen and absorb everything. Mom was a great listener and a lot of people had confidence in her, but all your friends in medical school …
MA:Yeah.
… uh, would come over and visit, uh, there were always our friends welcome in the house. We’d have dinners, discussions, and she was always curious and interested about, uh, everything. And, I think that sort of, you know, translated to, to the rest of us growing up. As a matter of fact, I think I remember Mom really being curious about having all kinds of different people come in and talk about things and just, uh …
MA:Right. Well, I think Mom might’ve gone a whole different direction, maybe she would have gone to medical school. I mean she really loved to the biology and all of that.
Yes. Yes, her favorite subject in college.
MA:Yeah.
And, her, her drawings and stuff were really – she had a book of drawings.
MA:Oh, I remember [inaudible].
Do you know where they are?
Nope, I know they were in the house, I don’t, I don’t …
MA:I don’t have them.
I don’t have them.
MA:But, I remember her showing them to me.
It seems to me like she also drew a panda or something one time.
MA:Oh, no, that was [inaudible].
Oh, that’s right, that was a gift.
MA:Yeah.
Yeah, she …
MA:I still have …
… that was a gift to you [inaudible].
The American flag.
MA:Yeah. You each, we each had one and I have a, uh, a …
You’ve had actually contact with Adele [the siblings’ babysitter when we were kids], right?
MA:I did, a long time ago, um, uh, I don’t know where she is. I think at the time Mom died, I think I got in touch with her.
That’s alright. [inaudible] I remember those drawings and biology that Mom had.
MA:I think, you’re right, I think Mom was a great listener and she was always interested in current stuff. I mean she wasn’t, you know …
Did she get that from Eileen?
MA:Maybe.
Cause I think that they – I remember …
Yeah, Eileen was a great listener.
… Eileen always being somehow interested in you.
MA:Yeah.
I think that Mom had that quality.
Yeah, she was. She’d find out a lot about you, so it wasn’t really about her. She’d know a lot about you and she talked about you. She would share herself, but she was interested …
MA:Oh, she would come off of a plane ride and know somebody’s whole life history.
I remember her coming down to Washington, uh, to see Eleanor and she watched a trial and she met a guy who’s now a very successful writer for the Washington Post.
MA:Yeah, he’d won a prize or something.
Uh, I don’t know.
MA:I remember that, too.
She had a discussion with him, she became friends with him.
MA:Yeah. Yeah.
That was just on a plane. It was just on the plane flight.
MA:And, her friends were younger, as well as being her own age, too.
Yeah.
MA:You know, she, uh – with Mary McCarthy and, uh, who was the other …
Oh, the [inaudible] and the …
MA:[inaudible]
… she always had young, younger people – younger couples that were related to them and I think they liked their advice for life …
Yeah.
… and I think a lot of people liked Dad’s approach or calm or just didn’t seem to get flustered. I know he got flustered – I mean, we talked about the teaching or the patience for that, but when I think back, like or – telling you important things for life on, on – especially for boys to survive, I remember that. I think, uh, when we were real small, for your own children, Dad, when we were real small played with us, we were up on his shoulders, you know, he was teaching us how to take care of ourselves. Playing games with us. And, Dad was playful. He was playful in his, uh, eyes and in his expressions, and what he did was, he, he would come into our world and I think when you have children, you can be an adult with the children, but you’re not in their world so you don’t understand what their world is, you’re looking at it from your world and they don’t, they don’t necessarily cross over. But, he had the ability, with the stories, the songs, the other things, to come into our world and spend time in our world with us as small, you know, small children.
MA:How did we all develop our love for the stuffed animals? How did that happen?
Uh, that was …
Well, actually, I think that was Eddie.
MA:Yeah.
Yeah, that was, that was – that was Matt ...
MA:You were making the voices, but I mean ...
Right.
MA:... we may have to have had the stuff.
[inaudible]
Well, we started with – really started with the Big Panda, Peter Panda, and Matt was Matt was, uh, young enough – just like, just like, uh ...
MA:Right.
Just like, uh, Julie and Erin, he was five years younger than me, he was way much younger than you so there was – like sort of a split up – we were friends ...
MA:Yeah.
... we were all close growing up for the – for the early years, you two were just locked and I was like the next guy on. Jimmy, you and I were great friends going on, but it was like the two of you and who’s this third kid that came along – for maybe up ‘til five or six or something.
MA:Um, huh.
Or, maybe a little longer. And, when Matt came along, Matt was like your, like your – for me and the age group, my little, really baby brother ...
MA:Yeah.
… and we started with Peter Panda and then we got all these other animals and had all the voices and, and, uh, for, you know, for us, I think probably from Dad with the imagination and the words and the, you know, the stories and the songs and stuff …
MA:Um, huh.
... I started doing just different voices and different characters and then we just entertained Matt and, we’d – you know, we’d play like the crazy man and all these different characters.
MA:Oh, it was so much fun.
And, Jimmy and I used to do characters like we were saying. And, we used to pull stunts. So, mainly, I think to entertain Matt as, as a kid ...
MA:Yeah, probably.
... we started with those things, those voices and stuff and I still did them through our kids growing up and they were a lot of fun to do because ...
I used voices with Dad.
MA:I did.
Yeah, so ...
MA:... and with the grandchildren.
So, yeah, so I think that, I think that came just because Matt was so much younger ...
MA:Um, huh.
... now, we’re all the same age, you know, it’s nothing, but when we were kids – and, one year or two was a huge amount, you know, five or, in your case, seven or, or eight years, is a big difference, so, uh, Matt was, Matt and I were, you know, I was doing voices and sort of watching out for, for little brother.
And, Dad also used to, uh, minstrel shows.
Yup.
MA:Um, huh.
High school [inaudible].
MA:Yeah.
Sort of random. Actually, one of the things about Dad for me was that he, he was understated, he – there were so many things that he really could do well that you never really heard about. I’m not sure if this is true, I haven’t gone back to look, but, uh, I think he graduated with honors from BC.
He did, he graduated, uh, I think Magna Cum Laude in the class of ...
MA:Yeah, and he was ...
Magna Cum Laude?
Yeah.
Did you ever hear about that, ever?
Uh, no, no, I never heard about, I never heard about his, his boxing, I know he showed and stuff, I didn’t know that, uh, he did all that boxing. In fact, I didn’t know how much he did. I knew Dad, Dad played cards, I knew Dad ...
Did he tell you the story about when he used to come in with his winnings and put ...
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I, I, uh ...
MA:He would do what?
Well, Dad got by playing cards when there were tough times. He’d go out and win money and Matt was in school, at least the way I understood, and Dad would go out and play and bring money home from gambling that he’d won, that would help support the family. And, he was really good ...
They actually helped support Matt through him.
Yeah.
You know, I didn’t realize Uncle Matt was, uh, quite a card player, too, and that he was – memorized all the cards. I didn’t know Uncle Matt could play cards. When they went down to the Cape ...
Did you play cards with Uncle Matt?
I never played cards with Uncle Matt. When they played down at Bridge down at the Cape when Mary and Fred and Kathleen and Bill and Mom and Dad would go and they’d play a lot ...
MA:Um, huh.
... I heard from all of them, that Matt was ...
[inaudible]
Huh, yeah, was outstanding. Just like Dad, he knew every card, he knew everything that was in and the mind was working that way and it was like – I didn’t know the whole family, like Dad and Matt had this great card skill and they, they ...
I, I remember trying to play poker or something with Matt, and his – and he liked to play gin, but I – he, he didn’t – but, he, uh ...
I don’t ever remember playing cards with Uncle Matt, I just ...
I played gin.
MA:I never did.
But, but, uh, yeah ...
What did Uncle Matt play at? Other than your head?
Well, he mostly played – well, Uncle Matt was, was brilliant, I think he was, uh, very flirtatious with the ladies. Always nice to them and for the guys, he was always trying, trying to put you on the spot a little bit, you know, on, on things.
MA:You know, I don’t think I – the most – the stories that I heard about Dad were, you know, about him coning that one guy, um, when he went out on the, the trip, you know, uh, on a fishing trip and this one guy used to – his mother used to make him these fabulous lunches and, um, uh, so she made this – everybody was going on this fishing trip and, and they said, well, Matt, you know, you know, why didn’t you bring something, we’re going to be out all day? And, he says, oh, just don’t worry about it. And, he knew that this guy was gonna get sick and then he ate his lunch, you know.
[laughter]
Dad did that, or ...
MA:Dad, this is Dad
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I didn’t know – Dad used to go off with, uh, Freddy Hoyer, Sr. and spend times on the, uh, uh ...
MA:Oh, right on the ...
... on the tugboats and stuff.
Right.
And, you know ...
But, I mean, he just really had a very rich and complex life before he ...
He did.
MA:Before he got married.
There was always a bunch of guys that used to go down to the Cape [Cape Cod, Massachusetts, Craigsville Beach] and they used to have good times, and ...
Scarborough Lake.
Yeah.
MA:I, uh, uh, just – when I was – before I came out here – just going through some things and I found a scrapbook that Mom had, and um, and she – it was of when – the first year that they were married.
Really?
MA:And, their first anniversary cards. And, I found one that my mother had sent to my father – our pop, and, um, it was signed “R”. And, I’m like, oh, I wonder what that is. What’s “R”? And, then I kept going through here and then I found one that was signed “Rosebud.” So, that must have been a pet name that Dad ...
Rosebud is the – in the movie.
MA:I, well, you know, Rosemary said the same thing to me. Something about that. Yeah. And, I – cause I, I don’t know that, but, I now know what the connection is. And, also, he must’ve had a nickname for me because there was a card from me signed by Mom, that said “Mitsy.” I don’t remember being called that.
I remember “Mares.”
MA:And, the other thing – yeah, well, that was from Tony [Anthony O’Malley, Marianne’s husband].
Right. Well, you – and, even, even around the house a little bit.
MA:Yeah. Um, what was it, um ...
Because of your horse sense.
MA:My what? My horse sense?
Shortened up the Marianne a little bit, yeah.
MA:I got, I got it. Um, he also wrote a couple of poems to her. Um ...
Dad did?
M:... yeah, and I’ll, um, make a copy of that for you, I didn’t bring them with me. Uh, they were just, they were so of the time. You know, he was the swain, and how he was, you know, he, he had decided that she was going to be his and he was gonna get her and, and I just remember the stories Mom told about how he courted her and, and, uh, you know, her being engaged ... [my mother was engaged to someone else when she met my father]
He’d sing a song to her sometimes, too.
MA:Let me call – darling, let’s grow old together.
Right.
And, she was actually the ...
MA:Engaged to somebody else.
Somebody else, yeah.
Who drank too much.
MA:Right.
He must’ve been from Summerville.
MA:Oh, he swept her off her feet. Can you – I mean, can you imagine, what a, what a twosome those two were, I mean he’s handsome, she’s gorgeous, you know ...
It was, uh, the, the – when they were school-teaching at, uh, I guess, Southern ...
MA:Southern Junior High [Somerville, MA].
... Junior High and, uh, that’s, that’s when, uh, the sparks started flying and I think, from what everybody tells us, that, uh, Dad had all the tough classes, all the tough kids, the bad kids, and the – I think that – Dad, he was, uh, – the admirable thing was [inaudible] quiet, quiet, but tough, he didn’t – sort of like the Clint Eastwood.
MA:Um, huh.
Clint Eastwood before his time.
MA:Yeah.
He just didn’t ...
MA:Yeah.
... didn’t have to say a lot, you know, you just, you just do things and you, uh ... I think had a … [noisy tape inaudible]
I think mostly he was happy and I think he sort of, oh – I was thinking another, another thing for Dad – you know, we talked little automobile accidents and stuff, I think the only thing he ever really got perturbed about was, uh, parking tickets and other things that Jimmy put in the trunk of the car and never told him about. [laughter]
MA:Right, right.
You know, you might have like 50 of ‘em ...
MA:And, keys, keys, he would have fits over keys.
... but, other than that, when you think about it, you get a car, and he like[d] the nice cars, and you have children driving and it sort of helped here, we had, we had, we all had little ding-ups.
MA:Mmmm.
And, you know, Dad never got mad about any one of the accidents.
MA:No.
He never yelled and said this is going to cause my insurance – you know, how could you be so, you know, stupid.
MA:No.
And, that was, that was really, you know, that was really something to, to try and – cause, cause, later on, you’re going to have a car, you’re going to have children, stuff’s going to happen and to just, you know, let it go, it’s something naturally that’s going, going to happen, and accept it and Dad was always, uh, Dad was really always accepting of, of not getting perturbed or, or angry about that. I think, I think the only thing I ever recall him getting angry about was maybe, uh ... [others come into room – several people talking about food]
MA:Well, Matt probably wants something.
Matt would probably love some.
[more conversation regarding snacks]
What were we ...
MA:Well, let’s see, what else about Dad?
Well, actually, you just engaged in a bad behavior.
MA:I did? Oh, okay. Um, what were we ...
Yeah, I don’t think ...
I don’t understand why he didn’t like ice cream. Just couldn’t understand that.
MA:Dad didn’t like ice cream?
No, not particularly. I think he’d rather have cheese – cheese ...
MA:Cheese and crackers.
Or cheese on pie. He didn’t want ice cream on pie.
MA:Right. Yup. Yup. Absolutely.
It’s pretty good, actually.
MA:Tony loves cheese on top.
Yeah.
[inaudible]
So, I just, you know, just thinking of different, different stages ...
Okay, when we were real small, Dad, Dad being playful, stories, the songs, et cetera, I think Mom with getting to school and the importance of school, I think she was ...
[inaudible] more Dad than Mom.
MA:Um, huh.
Yeah, but, Mom was the, the education and the homework and going over stuff, especially in younger grades ...
MA:Um, huh.
... reciting your homework, you know, making sure it was perfect. And, then, I, I sort of remember a – well, I remember this very clearly, the, the kitchen where we would all sit, we all had set seats.
Right.
Well, we said this before, you always picked a seat where you couldn’t get up and have to get anything.
[laughter]
Well, you know, Mary – you were on the end, you had to be on the end ...
MA:Well, one of the things that I ...
Jimmy couldn’t get up ...
[inaudible]
MA:Yeah, right, exactly so you didn’t have to get up.
Then, Jimmy on the back wall.
I didn’t think that was the reason.
Oh, no, that was the reason.
[laughter]
You never got up for anything.
[laughter]
MA:Well, one of the things I remember in college when I was taking small group theory and, um, one of the things with small groups is that, you know, everybody has their place, well, I came home, uh, and we all were supposed to do the experiment and so I went and I sat, you know in your seat.
That would be bad.
MA:Oh, yeah.
That would be bad.
MA:It was like, what are you – you can’t sit here. What do you mean I can’t sit here? You know.
And, we all ...
MA:It’s my seat.
Yeah, we all had, we all had sit – seats, but the interesting, the interesting thing was that, just trying to remember the childhood, uh, Dad, you know, when were really small, the stories and all that and just being playful with you, um, I think for Mom, just ailments, asthma, polio and that stuff – to me, Mom was like, hey, hey, it’s no problem, so you’re out – you’re trying to do things. There was never – like when you have children, you have a little bit of a problem, it’s never – can’t do anything. It’s always you can do this, you can do that, so ...
MA:That was a great thing to pass on to you because you were sick a lot.
Yeah, so you do all that stuff, you don’t stop doing, doing anything because of it. As we got older, when we were in school, I just remember so much at the kitchen table because we all discussed what happened and I think probably at early stages and it can change even more so later on – I think all of our opinions about what would happen to us was important. I never thought that Mom and Dad weren’t interest or that, you know, nobody was not entitled to their own particular opinion on something that was different from what theirs was, you know. It was diff – I know later on – there were disagreements on some things and ... [laughter]
No, actually, no, I ...
You know, but I think that ...
Dad said to me in one of the most – you know, even when I was – said, you know, um, he said two things, you don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can have your opinions. I still like your opinion – he said, he said, what I learned from my life is better you have a noose and put it around your neck than go against what you, you know, experience and believe and that had to do with, you know – I was, I said I get so irritated with these priests that, you know ...
MA:Yeah.
... that I’ve gotta talk back at them and I said I don’t wanta go to Mass cause I’m, cause I have this impediment and I’m just going to get really pissed off.
And, you were, you were never, uh, isolated or disowned, because we all went to church and then we had Monsignor McNamara who was very difficult, to, to listen to and take, uh, because he was fairly abrasive, uh ...
But, he was also very fond of us.
... yes, he was and he loved children, but somehow, we couldn’t figure out how, because, uh ...
He gave me a Meerschaum pipe.
He gave you a Meerschaum pipe? We used to – Jimmy and I used to shovel snow over at the church all the time ...
Yeah.
... and Jim Bishop was the guy who was ...
Oh, yeah.
... in charge of maintenance and he’d call us cause we were right next door, and it was good money. Used to love to shovel snow. Monsignor Sheridan paid well – as a kid and used to go ...
Sheridan always paid well.
Monsignor Mac comes by, we’re out shoveling the whole thing and he invites – he invites us in or maybe, maybe – but, I know he invited me in and what he handed me was like a picture of Jesus [inaudible]. You know, I’m going ...