[These are transcriptions of tapes of my Aunt Kathleen A. Conners talking to my brother, Jim McGuire.  She was born Kathleen Anastasia McGuire.  You can get a glimpse of her personality by listening.  She found it easy to laugh and liked what would have been the “People Magazine” of their day.  She talked to me about my father impersonating Liberace, and how funny everyone in the family thought that was.  She talked about her cats and how much she liked them.  One of the cats was named “Garbo” for the actress at that time, Greta Garbo.  Apparently Garbo used to get cream in her dish.  My aunt did remember a lot about her growing up.  She liked to reminisce.  I would listen over hot tea and toast about her family.  She recounted the story of attending my uncle’s graduation from Boston College High School.  Apparently, the graduation included a play or skit called “Tenting Tonight” complete with a song.  The graduates apparently left the stage when the song was over.  Or perhaps, she was confusing two events, the play and graduation.  I remember her telling me about her bachelor uncle Mike who went to Mass everyday until his mid-nineties.  Matt McGuire, October 2010.] 

 

J:This is Jim [James P.D. McGuire] with Aunt Kathleen [Kathleen Conners Gonn, Kathleen A. McGuire] and we’re going to reminisce together. 

 

K:Oh, my goodness.

 

J:So, why don’t you tell me what you were thinking about?

 

K:What?

 

J:Why don’t you tell me what you were thinking about?  So, you were thinking about Matt [Matthew F. McGuire, born May 30, my uncle] and Jimmy [James P. McGuire, my father].  What do you remember about them?  What do you – can you tell me about Jimmy and Matt and you as you grew up?

 

K:We grew up in Charleston.  Yea.  Loved every minute of it and the people on the street said they never saw such a lovely family as the three of us and our parents.  Nothing but laughter, people all there, never a dull moment. When my father died [also James McGuire, my grandfather], I think, one of the newspaper men, he came at 3:00 o’clock in the morning to the wake.  And, the three of us were up.

 

J:When your Dad died?

 

K:That’s right.

 

J:When your dad died, who was with your dad, were you with your dad when your dad died?  Dad said that he – your dad died of cancer, right?

 

K:Well, yes, he worked on the railroad, but that wasn’t a, uh, the cause of it, but I mean, he was in the office.  But, that on the railroad, the railroad paid more money and with children to educate, you needed more.  So, he took that job, so anyhow, he stayed there – oh, he was hit right here.

 

J:Right below his right ribs?

 

K:Yeah, with the train.

 

J:By a train?

 

K:By a train, rather.  And, like all the Irish, you know, of Irish descent, they don’t need a doctor, so the thing developed into a cancer.

 

J:Did it?

 

K:Yes, it did. And, that’s what he died from.

 

J:How old in the end was he, Kathleen?

K:56.

 

J:He was 56.

 

K:50.

 

J:50?

 

K:56.

 

J:So, he was a very young man when he died?

 

K:That’s right.

 

J:How old were the – how old were you and Matt and Jimmy?

 

K:I …

 

J:Dad [James P. McGuire, my father] said he was around 20 or 21?

 

K:He must’ve been, I guess so.  But, uh, anyhow, uh …

 

J:Was his death slow or quick?

 

K:His death?

 

J:Yeah.

 

K:Well, it was slow in one way, it was anticipated [inaudible].  I had pneumonia at the same time, I know that.  Day and night nurse, uh, two weeks at home, I still keep in touch with them, and, uh, then two weeks in the hospital.  [inaudible]  They gave me a royal reception at the hospital.  I remember [inaudible] …

 

J:Yeah.

 

K:Everybody loved him and I did, too.  So, Aunt Valerie was there, up everyday and, uh, [inaudible], of course.  And, then the group that we knew, so they all came up to see me.  So, Dr. Rowan was my – the chief doctor and his son was [inaudible], so I was in clover.  So, I got [inaudible].  You leave this young lady alone, all you doctors visiting her.  And, then the nurses, too.  I had a field day, I didn’t want to come home.

 

J:You didn’t?

 

K:I didn’t because I – they all made such a fuss over me and, uh, see my nose?

 

J:Yeah.

K:Well, that’s where I got that from the pneumonia.  And, [inaudible] – [inaudible] was my doctor at home and I was his first pneumonia patient and he did a great job, so, uh, anyhow, that’s Dr. Rowan – was important to me.

 

J:What was it like growing up?  You had …

 

K:It was heaven – heaven on earth.  We did nothing but enjoy ourselves.

 

J:What was the ages differences between you and Matt and Jim?  Who was the oldest?  Matt was the oldest?

 

K:Matt the was the oldest.

 

J:Then you were next?

 

K:And, then I was next and then, uh …

 

J:Jim.

 

K: Jimmy was next.

 

J:So, Jim was the baby?

 

K:Yes.  But, my mother had twins, Eddie and Marie, and they died when they were about one year old.

 

J:That’s sad.

 

K:I can remember, just barely, the boy had dimples just like my mother.

 

J:Um, huh.

 

K:And, the girl had huge eyes, about this big.

 

J:Wow.

 

K:Big eyes.  I was about four or five, I guess, and, uh, the other thing, mother had six children.

 

J:Did your mom talk about them after they died, or …

 

K:No, well, they – I think they died about a year and a half.

 

J:Um, huh.

 

K:The boy died first, I can remember that.  I have a tremendous memory.  And, uh, then the girl – no – yes, the girl died later and I can never forget it – her – she had – they were handsome babies.  The boy, uh, had my mother’s dimples.

 

J:Um, huh.

 

K:And, she had the big blue eyes.  And, uh, anyhow, what was I going to say there?

 

J:What was your house like?

 

K:What? 

 

J:What was the house like?

 

K:The house doctor?  Mansfield.

 

J:What was your house like?  In Charleston?  What was it like?  What kind of house was it?

 

K:The hospital?

 

J:No, the house that you lived in?

 

K:Oh, the house.  A three-decker.

 

J:Was it a three-decker?

 

K:A three-decker.  The bedrooms – my mother’s and my father’s were in the back and I was on the third floor in the front.  Six windows.

 

J:Six windows in your room?

 

K:In my – in my room.  Six windows.  And, uh, as I say, it was a big side entrance and the boys were on the second floor.  And, we had a den with a fire – with a fire – open fireplace, and, uh, that’s where we used to have the, uh, fire in the winter.  And, you could see it from the, uh, street on the second floor.

 

J:Um, huh.

 

K:So, then as we had …

 

J:Do you – do you remember when you were five years old?

 

K:You bet I do.  Boy, I guess, too.  I have the best memory of any kid.

 

J:Do you remember, for me, three things that you did with your mom when you were five?

K:My cousin Kitty?

 

J:No, with your mom when you were five?  Can you remember three things that you did with your mom?

 

K:I don’t know what you mean.

 

J:When you were five years old, can you remember three different occasions where you did something with your mom?

 

K:With my mother?

 

J:Yeah, with your mother?

 

K:Oh, with my mother.  Well, let me see now – food – you know, I always have a good appetite.  And, uh, chatted.  I was a chatterbox even then.  And, uh, as I say, then my mother had the twins.  I can remember the twins and she had another baby, Eddie.  Now, Eddie was about, he was about two years after me, I think.  My mother told me most of this.  But, anyhow, I’ve had a keen, as I say, memory.

 

J:What kind of food did your mom used to make when you were a kid?  When you were five?

 

K:Her best, the best of food.

 

J:What was the best?

 

K:Well …

 

J:Do you remember any special things that were the best?

 

K:What?  No, no, I can’t remember when we were babies.

 

J:She made – did she make good cookies?  Or, did she make, uh or good cakes?

 

K:Yes, those were good, we had oatmeal and [inaudible] – the kind that you boil.

 

J:Yeah.

 

K:And, thank God, we were healthy.

 

J:What did you used to chat to your mom about?  Talk to her about?

 

K:[inaudible]

 

J:They ever call you Chatty Cathy?

K:What – you mean in my adult?

 

J:While you were a kid?

 

K:Oh, I don’t know, I can’t remember that far back, but I always confided in my mother, she knew where I was and with whom I was.  And, as I say, our house was never, never empty.  We had a lovely kitchen there and, uh, there’s a side entrance.  And, we had a living room where we had a TV.  Anything that came out music, we had it.  And, that was on the, uh, floor where we had our music.  And, then, uh, we had a toilet in the summer.  And, the bathroom was on the second floor and, uh, we had a music room.  [inaudible] in our living room on the second floor and then, uh, my piano was out there.  And, another fireplace there.

 

J:Sounds like a pretty classy place?

 

K:It was – ten rooms.  And, then a walk-in closet.  A huge closet.  But, if it hadn’t been for the fact that my mother could never take care – the living room was kind of the floor there – room on the third floor – Matt said, well, we better move out.  My father had been buried and it wasn’t the same after that.  So, I cried the night before.  I was on the third floor with my parents.

 

J:What was your dad like when you were growing up?  What do you remember about him?

 

K:My father, everybody loved.  He was handsome and so was my mother a beauty.  They were a handsome couple.

 

J:Did, uh – did, uh – who looked like your dad?  Did Jimmy or Matt look like your dad?

 

K:I would say Jimmy.  Matt and I were my mother’s.  We looked – they say that we looked alike.  My mother had the dimples and she was a beauty.  My father was handsome.  Must have a picture of my father somewhere.  I know I have.

 

J:Um, huh.  How big a man was he, Kathleen?

 

K:He was about, uh, five – let me see.  Five-ten – about five-ten, I guess.

 

J:About my size?

 

K:Yes, just about.  And, he had a very ruddy complexion.

 

J:Were you his special favorite, seeing as you were the only girl in the family?

 

K:No, they all loved me.  They, they spoiled me.

 

J:They did?

 

K:And, I loved it, but anyhow, uh, my father used to love to hear play together – the three of us. 

 

J:Yeah.

 

K:Matt was playing the, uh, violin.  And, Jimmy with clarinet.  And, myself the piano.  So, once in a while, we’d play together upstairs in my room.  That’s where we had our oriental rug.  Downstairs, we had, uh, a beautiful oak wood.  This was for roughage.  But, uh, in the – where the piano was, my room, [inaudible], we had to put the piano on the second floor.  And, as I was saying, I was on the third floor.  No, my brothers were on the second floor in the back.  And, then, the bathroom was right next to theirs and then before you got to their bedroom, that was the den with the fireplace there.

 

J:Dad used to say that it was a lot of work to clean all the windows in that house.

 

K:Well, there must’ve been, uh, 24-25.

 

J:He said that, uh …

 

K:We had eight rooms – how many? – there were five windows in the top floor bedroom of mine and I think two in my mother’s, and then, uh, two in the – my brother Jimmy’s.  And, then I think another two in the, uh – off their room where the fireplace was.  That was the den.  The upstairs den.  The fancy one.  And, then downstairs, we had the kitchen, the dining room and then a little alcove – going from the dining room to a little alcove right into the downstairs living room.

 

J:Sounds pretty busy.

 

K:That’s right.  And, uh …

 

J:Dad, Dad used to say that he and Matt used to get into mischief together.  Did you ever see them get into mischief together?

 

K:Oh, gosh, I don’t know, that could be.  You aren’t wrong.  Yes, I’ll tell you what mischief he was in.  He knew that I was mortally afraid of a mouse.  And, my mother, too.  So, there was a mouse caught [inaudible] to the house and my mother – we had a downstairs living room, the big room was upstairs.  When she got into the dining room the first one and she locked herself in [laughter] knowing that I’d be after her and I was left with the mouse.  Oh, my gosh.  I screamed.  I don’t know how I knew it.  And, Matt – not Jimmy, no.  Here I am screaming at my mother to let the dining – open the dining room door and let me in.  She was afraid the mouse would come in with me.  And, she’d say, wait till I tell your father on you [inaudible].  So, I had to suffer.  But, Jimmy didn’t, Jimmy didn’t tease me, no, but Matt, oh, my God.  The mice.  So, I had a rough time.  Not with Jimmy.

 

J:With Matt?

 

K:He was, he was my friend.  [laughter]  He wouldn’t do that now.  He, he teased me, but he loved me.

 

J:How were they different?  How are Matt and Jimmy different?  How are they …

 

K:Well, they’re two different personalities, of course.

 

J:Yeah, how are they different?

 

K:They’re different looks, of course.  They’re both handsome and, uh …

 

J:How are their personalities different?

 

K:Well, Matt was playing tricks, as I say.  Now, Jimmy didn’t do that and, uh, Jimmy and I were pals.  Let’s see, we played squash ball together.

 

J:You and Jim?  [male voice:  How are you?  J: Good.  I’m up for a conference.  I’ve been taping the conference.  I came over and Kathleen said she was, uh, reminiscing, so I thought I might bring the tape in and just reminisce, too – to hear about, uh, my dad.  Male voice:  I’ll put the car in the garage.  How’s the family?  J:  The family’s great.  The family’s dwindling, there’s two of us now.  Male voice:  What do you hear from Matt?  J:  I think Matt’s looking forward to getting back to the United States.  I think he’s had a very good time, but he’s ready to go on, I think, either with a rock band or college, one of the two or maybe both and Joshua is, uh, really sort of thriving, I think, at Buxton.  Broke his thumb this past week, but I told him that that wasn’t unusual, that I had broken mine on my brother’s head once.  Other than that …  Male voice:  Is, uh – he’s boarding, is he?  J:  Yeah.  Male voice:  See you later.]

 

K:Baby’s one day and then six-footers the next.

 

J:That’s true.

 

K:What were we saying?

 

J:Well, we’re talking about the differences in the personalities of Jimmy and Matt.  You’re saying that Matt …

 

K:Oh, yes.

 

J:Dad was more of a trickster.

 

K:Yes.

 

J:And, Jimmy was sort of more your friend, you used to play squash ball together?

 

K:Well, that’s the thing.  Uh, we …

J:Was Jimmy more athletic?  Was Jimmy …

 

K:Oh, yes.  Much more, yes.  Matt wasn’t.  He was, you know, a student.

 

J:Actually, my dad told me that, that although Matt was a student, that Jimmy was really a very good student, too, that he …

 

K:He certainly was.

 

J:… he did both.

 

K:Yes, he did.

 

K:He was very, very smart.

 

J:And, he graduated with honors from high school and from college.

 

K:College, I think it was.  And, I used to type his thesis and I typed all the thesis.

 

J:You typed theirs and you typed ours, too.

 

K:Yeah, and, my mother’d say, 12 o’clock, she’s not in yet.  She was up with me.  But, uh, it was a joy.

 

J:What did – what was – squash ball, Jim played with you, what other things did Dad – what was my Dad like, was he, uh, was he a ladies man, was he, uh …

 

K:No.

 

J:… did he have a lot of girlfriends, my Dad when he was growing up?

 

K:Oh,  no, girlfriends, never.  They didn’t go with girlfriends for quite some time.

 

J:They didn’t?

 

K:No.  The boys played a lot of squash ball with us.

 

J:Yeah.

 

K:Surely, yes. 

 

J:Dad didn’t have any girlfriends when he was a young man?

 

K:Oh, I imagine, but I didn’t know about it.  No, I don’t think – they didn’t bother.  But, uh, I know that, uh, one of the girls, she was quite – more strong than I am – and she hitting and hurting me whatever I do, and so, I had first choice and the first one I’d choose was my brother Jimmy.  He was the best player.

 

J:At what?

 

K:Squash, squash – everything – all the sports.  So, even when we grew up, every time she’d see me [in] Boston, I’d have to run.  She’d punch me on the back because I took my brother Jimmy into our team.  [laughter]

 

J:So,  it sounds like Jimmy was a popular guy.

 

K:Oh, they both were.

 

J:Yeah.

 

K:We had – we had one wonderful growing up and that’s when you need it.

 

J:You say Matt was more of a student?

 

K:Well, Matt didn’t, uh, go in for the sports. 

 

J:He didn’t?

 

K:No, except for golf and, uh, well, golf, that’s all.

 

J:How many years difference were there between Matt and Jimmy?

 

K:What?

 

J:How many years was the difference between Matt and Dad?

 

K:Uh, maybe four, I guess.  Two between …

 

J:There’s two between you and Matt and then two between you and Jimmy?

 

K:Yeah, I guess so.  I can’t even figure, but …

 

J:Well, was Matt out of high school before Jimmy started?

 

K:I can’t think.  I don’t think so.  I don’t think so, Jim.

 

J:What do, what do you remember about – I mean seeing you’ve been in this house as long as the rest, uh – as anybody – what do you remember about, uh, Marianne and Jimmy and Eddie and Matthew [my siblings and me]?  What do you remember about this house?  Remember anything about – what are your memories of the McGuire children growing up?  What do you remember about them?

K:I know they were adorable.

 

J:Yeah?

 

K:And, that they really kept my mother [Catherine McGuire, born Kelly, my grandmother] alive.  Oh, listen, every time I see, I see – Jim can be there – and I say, well, I’m glad you talk to me now.  But, you’d come in that door when you were five years old and you’d say, where’s the Nana – and ignored me completely and you wanted the Nana.  I had to get the Nana and his money had to be put under Nana’s bed, fear a guy’d steal it. [laughter]  And, I told him, [he said] oh, I never did – and he goes, oh, I never did.  And, he goes into hysterics.  I said, yes, you did. 

 

J:Do you remember anything special about Eddie?

 

K:Oh, Eddie.  Well, my mother didn’t do much with – housework with Eddie.  Eddie came up to the Nana – that he called the Nana – she would read to him by hours and hours and hours.  I used to get tired listening to it.  I’d get tired.  She, she sat in that kitchen and he was with her and she’d left out a semi-colon and he’d tell her, read, read, read.  Thank God she could read and thank God she had good eyesight.  Oh, yes, he was right up there.

 

J:How about Mary Ann?  What do you remember about Mary Ann?

 

K:Well, yes, Mary Ann [inaudible] around here and, uh, then Matt would come on from Washington.  I think he must’ve been in Washington at that time.  They were great pals.  She would go over to him and shake hands with him and, and, uh, he’d give her a great reception.  She was his pet.  And, the whole bunch of them, they were …

 

J:What do you remember about me?  When I was …

 

K:Well, the same.

 

J:How?

 

K:A joy.

 

J:Yeah, but do you remember particular things about Matt and you remember something about Eddie.  Is there anything you remember about me?

 

K:Yes, you came up for the goodies, too. 

 

J:And, what would I do?

 

K:Well, you were, uh, you’d go through the house, and talk to Nana and tell her all your plans.  Smart one, too.

 

J:Who?

K:You.  All you kids were smart.  As I say, it was a wonderful, wonderful …

 

J:How?

 

K:… it was Dad’s idea, your mother and father had no place to go, they were fixing the house [inaudible].  They had no place to go during the shortage of houses and what does the good uncle do.  He buys this house.  Now, who would do that?  Not too many uncles.  But, anyhow, he bought this house and it was wonderful for my mother, heaven on earth.  Her [grand] children came up the stairs, I would be at the head of the stairs watching them come up – but, anyhow, they had the Nana on the first – second floor, instead of having to go a distance to see their Grandmother.

 

J:That must’ve been nice.

 

K:It … huh …

 

J:It must’ve been nice.

 

K:It was wonderful.  It was, it was her life.  And, uh …

 

J:How about yours?  How were – how were we with you?

 

K:Oh, golly, I …

 

J:I remember actually – there are a couple things that I remember.  I remember once when Eddie was really sick with polio, uh, you used to come downstairs – and sometimes when we were sick, you’d come downstairs to see us.  I remember that.  Do you remember – and, I also remember – I think my mother’s mother was living here for a while.

 

[I believe what my Aunt Kathleen is saying here is my mother’s mother, my grandmother, lived in the house for several months before she died.  My mother’s mother was no blood relation to Aunt Kathleen.]

 

K:It was quite a while.

 

J:Was she?

 

K:Yes, I would say so.

 

J:So, there was a grandmother upstairs and a grandmother downstairs?

 

K:That’s right.  But, she wasn’t there very long.

 

J:She wasn’t there very long?

 

K:Um, huh.  I think she was sick and died.  She was a nice lady.

J:She was?

 

K:But, when you have the grandmother in the same house, it makes a difference.

 

J:I think so.

 

K:Yeah, you grow up with them.  And, of course, as I said she – course she didn’t have to do work, but if she had to do it, she wouldn’t do it.  The kids had to have their reading and course she would read and write – she had beautiful handwriting.  Beautiful.

 

J:She made great toast, too.

 

K:Yes, she had everything, and, uh, she had – she was wonderful for decorating a home.

 

J:Um, huh.

 

K:And, they could put my mother in a bed and she’d decorate it and make a showplace out of it.

 

J:I know she used to really, both you and she, used to like to polish silver.  I remember you polishing silver, too. 

 

K:She, she’d polish everything.

 

J:Yeah.

 

K:I was brought up to do nothing.  I was the only daughter and I was spoiled.

 

J:Um, huh.

 

K:And, instead of, uh, being in helping my mother, I was out playing squash ball. 

 

J:You miss your mom?

K:Do I miss her?

 

J:Yeah.

 

K:Oh, my God, yes.  My mother and I were pals and, uh, wherever I went, my mother went.  I took her to the shows.  I took her to Montreal.  I took her to the Cape.  And, uh, my mother had a wonderful life.  She had two magnificent sons who loved her and never were bad to her and, uh, always enjoyed it.  She wouldn’t let me do housework, you know, growing up.  No.  So, I’m glad she didn’t because I got quite a bit – a lot of it when I got older.  But, she would not let me do housework.   That’s how I was out playing squash ball.  Oh, yes, and then also, my group and I – I had a great group with me – boys and girls – and, uh, we’d go to Dewey Beach.  Dewey Beach was about, uh, two or three streets away from our house.  And, uh, Dewey Beach – in the morning around 10 o’clock – the boys were on one side and you on the other we’d go back and forth to each others’ [inaudible] and, then, uh, let me see, in the afternoon, that was squash ball time.  And, that went right into, uh, maybe 5 o’clock unless there was the, uh, school was, uh,  closed.  But, we did nothing but enjoy ourselves and I’m thankful to God we did.

 

J:Good.

 

K:Because you could – and then, you’d meet them years later and they’d remember you.  Now, that’s the way it is in Charleston.  You’ve met people in grammar school and in your old age, if they are living, they were still your friends.  Now, who would believe that?

 

J:It’s unusual and wonderful.

 

K:I have friends that we brought – grammar school – she’s not too many years of living, but years and years, we went to each other’s houses.

 

J:Super.

 

K:These were classmates – grammar school.  And, all of them then – some of my friends went to, uh, English school and I went to Rosary Academy and, uh, Dominicans, of course, and I knew some of the Dominicans that I had grammar school with and up to where, the place up there where you people went …

 

J:Not Trinity?

 

K:[inaudible]  One of them, Sister, uh – well, anyhow, I can’t remember her name.  But, it had a great chapel there.  Sister Amadeus.  I think she was up there.  She was a great – I took, uh, vocal lessons from her and elocution and then the elocution they begin and I took lessons from her and, uh, on commencement day from Rosary Academy, I had all the honors I wanted, I had honorary – a diploma for mathematics and shorthand and typewriting.  That was just from the end of the year.  I can’t – the place that distributes them in New York.  And, I have that and I put over by Rosary Academy so I wouldn’t have to get another [inaudible] and it’s right in the living room. I’ll show it to you before you go out.

 

J:Okay.

 

K:And, uh, that was for honorable mention, that’s what they call it, and that was from, I think, New Jersey, or someplace.

 

J:Um, huh.

 

K:So, uh I graduated with honors anyhow.  But, I loved the Academy.  I loved every single day of my, uh, schooling.  And, then I was a – I took elocution lessons from [inaudible].

 

J:Why did Matt and Jimmy go on to college and you didn’t?  Why was that?

 

K:Well, I tell you I could have and I had the, uh, the brains to go, but I suppose I was a little, what do we say, uh, wanted to get out of the school and want to get going.  And, I said, here, here I am.  I finished my, uh …

 

J:You finished high school?

 

K:No, I wanted my, uh, profession.  In mathematics.  So, I – could have – and I said, why should I go to college, I know all the – what I – I got the training, a part of it from Rosary Academy, a private school.  I said, why should I waste going over the whole thing again.

 

J:Where was Rosary Academy?  Where was it?

 

K:Was it where?

 

J:Where was it?

 

K:Up, uh, right at the top of the hill there.

 

J:That’s Trinity – Mount Trinity.  Where’s Rosary?

 

K:That’s right.  It used to be Sacred Heart, when I went there.

 

J:Where – what town was it in?

 

K:What?

 

J:What town?

 

K:Watertown.

 

J:So, you …

 

K:[inaudible] Street.

 

J:So, you went all the way from Charleston to …

 

K:Don’t, don’t I know it, don’t I know it.  But, we girls, my group, myself, we’d meet at [inaudible].  Because [inaudible].  Get the train, I guess, into the subway and then [inaudible] and then go to the Academy.

 

J:So, it must’ve taken you about an hour a day to go to school and an hour to get back?

 

K:About an hour and a quarter.

 

J:Gosh.

 

K:And, then we had to walk – if the jitney was there, we’d take it, but …

 

[Walking to another room and looking at picture]

 

K:That’s Joyce Kilmer’s House of  Northern England.

 

J:Oh, it’s beautiful.

 

K:Isn’t it?  Oh, I loved it and I couldn’t, I couldn’t wait to say it.  So, I got a tremendous applause on it, because …

 

J:How does it go?

 

K:Well, hope I don’t forget it.  [quietly speaking the poem]

 

[Note from transcriptionist.  I have inserted a copy of the Kilmer poem]

 

Whenever I walk to Suffern along the Erie track
I go by a poor old farmhouse with its shingles broken and black.
I suppose I've passed it a hundred times, but I always stop for a minute
And look at the house, the tragic house, the house with nobody in it. 

I never have seen a haunted house, but I hear there are such things;
That they hold the talk of spirits, their mirth and sorrowings.
I know this house isn't haunted, and I wish it were, I do;
For it wouldn't be so lonely if it had a ghost or two. 

This house on the road to Suffern needs a dozen panes of glass,
And somebody ought to weed the walk and take a scythe to the grass.
It needs new paint and shingles, and the vines should be trimmed and tied;
But what it needs the most of all is some people living inside. 

 

If I had a lot of money and all my debts were paid
I'd put a gang of men to work with brush and saw and spade.
I'd buy that place and fix it up the way it used to be
And I'd find some people who wanted a home and give it to them free. 

Now, a new house standing empty, with staring window and door,
Looks idle, perhaps, and foolish, like a hat on its block in the store.
But there's nothing mournful about it; it cannot be sad and lone
For the lack of something within it that it has never known. 

But a house that has done what a house should do,
a house that has sheltered life,
That has put its loving wooden arms around a man and his wife,
A house that has echoed a baby's laugh and held up his stumbling feet,
Is the saddest sight, when it's left alone, that ever your eyes could meet. 

So whenever I go to Suffern along the Erie track
I never go by the empty house without stopping and looking back,
Yet it hurts me to look at the crumbling roof and the shutters fallen apart,
For I can't help thinking the poor old house is a house with a broken heart.

 

J:That’s a wonderful poem.

 

K:Isn’t it beautiful?

 

J:It is.

 

K:I didn’t think I remembered it.

 

J:I think you did terrific.

 

K:I never forget, the nuns, when they would listen to me rehearsing it before the graduation, they used to cry, thinking of their own homes …

 

J:Yeah.

 

K:… with tears, though.  [inaudible]  But, Joyce Kilmer, I, uh, I think I may make a record of those.

 

J:Good.

 

K:I should.  But, it was a beautiful, beautiful poem.

 

J:Okay.

 

K:And, as I say, I – the, uh, teacher, she was magnificent, beautiful.  She was a lay teacher, not one of the clergy, I mean, the nuns.

 

[End of Interview]